Sugar. . And I'm wondering whether Monica is gonna run into, as she tries to make plants more animal-like, whether she's just gonna run into this malice from the scientific -- I'm just wondering, do you share any of that? ", ROBERT: So the deer's like, "Oh, well. You should definitely go out and check out her blog, The Artful Amoeba, especially to the posts, the forlorn ones about plants. And she goes into that darkened room with all the pea plants. She's done three experiments, and I think if I tell you about what she has done, you -- even you -- will be provoked into thinking that plants can do stuff you didn't imagine, dream they could do. They look just like mining tunnels. Her use of metaphor. ROBERT: She says it was like this moment where she realizes, "Oh, my God! SUZANNE SIMARD: Yes, that seems to be what happens. Maybe each root is -- is like a little ear for the plant. But the drop was just shocking and sudden enough for the little plant to Then Monica hoists the plant back up again and drops it again. That's what she says. MONICA GAGLIANO: Not really. ROBERT: So these trees were basically covered with bags that were then filled with radioactive gas. So Pavlov started by getting some dogs and some meat and a bell. To play the message, press two. The whole thing immediately closes up and makes it look like, "Oh, there's no plant here. Well, you can see the white stuff is the fungus. ROBERT: To try to calculate how much springtail nitrogen is traveling back to the tree. But instead of dogs, she had pea plants in a dark room. The plants would always grow towards the light. ROBERT: Because this peculiar plant has a -- has a surprising little skill. Not really. I don't know where you were that day. MONICA GAGLIANO: Yeah, I know. But maybe it makes her sort of more open-minded than -- than someone who's just looking at a notebook. Apparently, she built some sort of apparatus. Are you, like, aggressively looking around for -- like, do you wake up in the morning saying, "Now what can I get a plant to do that reminds me of my dog, or reminds me of a bear, or reminds me of a bee?". Pretty much like the concept of Pavlov with his dog applied. Jigs is in trouble!" And I do that in my brain. ROBERT: But what -- how would a plant hear something? MONICA GAGLIANO: I wonder if that was maybe a bit too much. How does it know which way to turn and grow its roots so that it can find the water? SUZANNE SIMARD: It'll go, "Ick. JENNIFER FRAZER: Then he would bring them the meat and he would ring a bell. He's the only springtail with a trench coat and a fedora. We went and looked for ourselves. The same one that are used in computers like, you know, really tiny. I found a little water! And so I was really excited. We showed one of these plants to him and to a couple of his colleagues, Sharon De La Cruz ROBERT: Because we wanted them to help us recreate Monica's next experiment. I mean, I think there's something to that. And lignin is full of nitrogen, but also compounds like nitrogen is important in DNA, right? 2016. Pics! And I wanted to talk to them because, as building inspectors they -- there's something they see over and over and over. Maybe each root is -- is like a little ear for the plant. ], Radiolab was created by Jad Abumrad and is produced by Soren Wheeler. LARRY UBELL: All right, my hypothesis is that what happens is LARRY UBELL: Can I -- can I have a few minutes? Have you hugged your houseplant today? ROBERT: Yeah. No, it's far more exciting than that. I mean, you've heard that. As abundant as what was going on above ground. ROBERT: Okay. Does it threaten my sense of myself or my place as a human that a plant can do this? It was like, Oh, I might disturb my plants!" They're called feeder roots. Is there anyone whose job it is to draw a little chalk outlines around the springtails? To remember? St. Andrew's Magazine Dr. Aatish Bhatia Inspires Students & Faculty. Of the tree's sugar goes down to the mushroom team? It just kept curling. So -- so carbon will move from that dying tree. She's not gonna use hot water because you don't want to cook your plants, you know? And so why is that? And these acids come out and they start to dissolve the rocks. You got the plant to associate the fan with food. Yes. She's working in the timber industry at the time. They run out of energy. LARRY UBELL: Yeah, and I have done inspections where roots were coming up through the pipe into the house. ROBERT: He gives us a magnifying glass. Crossposted by 4 years ago. That's okay. There are multiple ways of doing one thing, right? If she's going to do this experiment, most likely she's going to use cold water. The Ubells see this happening all the time. And again. by Radiolab Follow. And all of a sudden, one of them says, "Oh, oh, oh, oh! ROBERT: So there is some water outside of the pipe. It's a family business. ROBERT: Two very different options for our plant. Like, from the trees perspective, how much of their sugar are they giving to the fungus? Well, maybe. ], [ALVIN UBELL: And Alvin Ubell. In this story, a dog introduces us to a strange creature that burrows . No question there. That is definitely cool. Ring, meat, eat. She took that notion out of the garden into her laboratory. I don't know. Never mind. And then Monica would ROBERT: Just about, you know, seven or eight inches. Like the bell for the dog. Is that what -- is that what this? He'd fallen in. And so they have this trading system with trees. We dropped. JENNIFER FRAZER: They had learned to associate the sound of the bell ROBERT: Which has, you know, for dogs has nothing to do with meat. He's got lots of questions about her research methods, but really his major complaint is -- is her language. ROBERT: Two very different options for our plant. People speculated about this, but no one had actually proved it in nature in the woods until Suzanne shows up. Now the plants if they were truly dumb, they'd go 50/50. ROBERT: And we dropped it once and twice. Truth is, I think on this point she's got a -- she's right. And so I don't have a problem with that. ROBERT: She says the tree can only suck up what it needs through these -- mostly through the teeny tips of its roots, and that's not enough bandwidth. She actually trained this story in a rather elaborate experimental setup to move away from the light and toward a light breeze against all of its instincts. ROBERT: Special thanks to Dr. Teresa Ryan of the University of British Columbia, Faculty of Forestry, to our intern Stephanie Tam, to Roy Halling and the Bronx Botanical Garden, and to Stephenson Swanson there. So just give me some birds. ROBERT: But once again I kind of wondered if -- since the plant doesn't have a brain or even neurons to connect the idea of light and wind or whatever, where would they put that information? Like, the plant is hunting? He uses it to train his border www.npr.org Before you begin to think that this is weird science, stop. Yeah. JENNIFER FRAZER: So Pavlov started by getting some dogs and some meat and a bell. The tree will wrap its roots around that pipe. JENNIFER FRAZER: Well, 25 percent of it ended up in the tree. Pics! So maybe the root hairs, which are always found right at the growing tips of plant roots, maybe plant roots are like little ears. Except in this case instead of a chair, they've got a little plant-sized box. Birds. So maybe the root hairs, which are always found right at the growing tips of plant roots, maybe plant roots are like little ears. This assignment pairs with the RadioLab podcast; specifically the Smarty Plants episode. ROBERT: I'm not making this up. You got the plant to associate the fan with food. I mean, couldn't it just be like that? Here's the water.". Or even learn? Pics! Because what she does next is three days later, she takes these plants back into the lab. ROBERT: Then she placed the fan right next to the light so that MONICA GAGLIANO: The light and the fan were always coming from the same direction. Actually that's good advice for anyone. In this case, a little blue LED light. They can go north, south, east, west, whatever. She says what will happen under the ground is that the fungal tubes will stretch up toward the tree roots, and then they'll tell the tree With their chemical language. On one side, instead of the pipe with water, she attaches an MP3 player with a little speaker playing a recording of ROBERT: And then on the other side, Monica has another MP3 player with a speaker. MONICA GAGLIANO: Like a defensive mechanism. Into the roots, and then into the microbial community, which includes the mushroom team, yeah. ], [JENNIFER FRAZER: My name is Jennifer Frazer. She's done three experiments, and I think if I tell you about what she has done, you -- even you -- will be provoked into thinking that plants can do stuff you didn't imagine, dream they could do. Me first. The bell, the meat and the salivation. Charts. LINCOLN TAIZ: It's a very interesting experiment, and I really want to see whether it's correct or not. Hey, it's okay. Is it ROBERT: This is like metaphor is letting in the light as opposed to shutting down the blinds. Favorite 46 Add to Repost 7. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, she says she looks down into the ground and she notices all around them where the soil has been cleared away there are roots upon roots upon roots in this thick, crazy tangle. It's 10 o'clock and I have to go. ANNIE: But I wonder if her using these metaphors ANNIE: is perhaps a very creative way of looking at -- looking at a plant, and therefore leads her to make -- make up these experiments that those who wouldn't think the way she would would ever make up. They can't photosynthesize. I'm 84. They have to -- have to edit in this together. One tree goes "Uh-oh." Along with a home-inspection duo, a science writer, and some enterprising scientists at Princeton University, wedig into the work of evolutionaryecologist Monica Gagliano, who turns ourbrain-centered worldview on its head through a series of clever experiments that show plants doing things we never would've imagined. And we can move it up, and we can drop it. ROBERT: What's its job? MONICA GAGLIANO: Picasso, enough of that now. And then I needed to -- the difficulty I guess, of the experiment was to find something that will be quite irrelevant and really meant nothing to the plant to start with. RICHARD ATTENBOROUGH: It's the equivalent of a human being jumping over the Eiffel Tower. The whole thing immediately closes up and makes it look like, "Oh, there's no plant here. It was like -- it was like a huge network. MONICA GAGLIANO: Like a defensive mechanism. But the drop was just shocking and sudden enough for the little plant to Do its reflex defense thing. This is the headphones? Because what she does next is three days later, she takes these plants back into the lab. Five, four, three, two, one, drop! And after not a whole lot of drops the plant, she noticed, stopped closing its leaves. JAD: It was curling each time when it ROBERT: Every time. You know, one of those little jeweler's glasses? ROBERT: Smaller than an eyelash. Then she takes the little light and the little fan and moves them to the other side of the plant. You need the nutrients that are in the soil. ROBERT: No, I -- we kept switching rooms because we weren't sure whether you want it to be in the high light or weak light or some light or no light. So he brought them some meat. Here's the water.". ROBERT: say they're very curious, but want to see these experiments repeated. The Douglas fir became diseased and -- and died. Yes. ], Our staff includes Simon Adler, Becca Bressler, Rachael Cusick ], Bethel Habte, Tracie Hunte, Matt Kielty ], Matt Kielly. So that's where these -- the scientists from Princeton come in: Peter, Sharon and Aatish. And if you just touch it Where all the leaves close in, like do do do do do do. Like what she saw in the outhouse? So it wasn't touching the dirt at all. It's almost as if these plants -- it's almost as if they know where our pipes are. They would salivate and then eat the meat. ROBERT: She found that the one stimulus that would be perfect was MONICA GAGLIANO: A little fan. Can Robert get Jad to join the march? Robert Krulwich. And is it as dramatic in the opposite direction? And it's more expensive. Are going to make me rethink my stance on plants. I don't know if you're a bank or if you're an -- so it's not necessarily saying, "Give it to the new guy." So here's what she did. ROBERT: Like, I don't understand -- learning, as far as I understand it, is something that involves memory and storage. But we are in the home inspection business. So no plants were actually hurt in this experiment. Listen to one of these podcasts: (Read the summaries and choose the one you want) Radiolab - Update: CRISPR Radiolab - Cellmates Radiolab - Shrink Radiolab - From Tree to Shining Tree Radiolab - Antibodies Part 1: CRISPR Radiolab - Galapagos Radiolab - Smarty Plants Radiolab - Super Cool For the main post please include: Title ROBERT: The fungus were literally sucking the nitrogen out of the springtails, and it was too late to get away. She says it was like this moment where she realizes, "Oh, my God! Jigs emerged. ROBERT: So if a beetle were to invade the forest, the trees tell the next tree over, "Here come the --" like Paul Revere, sort of? In my brain. Hobbled, really. ALVIN UBELL: They would have to have some ROBERT: Maybe there's some kind of signal? I mean, it's a kind of romanticism, I think. They're switched on. Special thanks to Dr. Teresa Ryan of the University of British Columbia, Faculty of Forestry, to our intern Stephanie Tam, to Roy Halling and the Bronx Botanical Garden, and to Stephenson Swanson there. I think there are some cases where romanticizing something could possibly lead you to some interesting results. JAD: So they just went right for the MP3 fake water, not even the actual water? ROBERT: And you can actually see this happen. The idea was to drop them again just to see, like, the difference between the first time you learn something and the next time. In a tangling of spaghetti-like, almost a -- and each one of those lines of spaghetti is squeezing a little bit. From just bears throwing fish on the ground? Like, if you put food into one tree over here, it would end up in another tree maybe 30 feet away over there, and then a third tree over here, and then a fourth tree over there, and a fifth tree over there. And ROBERT: Since he was so deep down in there. And you can actually see this happen. MONICA GAGLIANO: Pretty much like the concept of Pavlov with his dog applied. Whatever. ROY HALLING: Like, I say, it's early in the season. If you look at a root under a microscope, what you see is all these thousands of feelers like hairs on your head looking for water. But the Ubells have noticed that even if a tree is 10 or 20, 30 yards away from the water pipe, for some reason the tree roots creep with uncanny regularity straight toward the water pipe. You know, it goes back to anthropomorphizing plant behaviors. Now the plants if they were truly dumb they'd go 50/50. Douglas fir, birch and cedar. They curve, sometimes they branch. ROBERT: And he starts digging with his rake at the base of this tree. You have a forest, you have mushrooms. They're not experiencing extra changes, for example. This is by the way, what her entire family had done, her dad and her grandparents. It's a -- it's a three-pronged answer. Jad and Robert, they are split on this one. He shoves away the leaves, he shoves away the topsoil. SUZANNE SIMARD: We had a Geiger counter out there. SUZANNE SIMARD: He was a, not a wiener dog. The problem is is with plants. You know, it goes back to anthropomorphizing plant behaviors. Peering down at the plants under the red glow of her headlamp. This feels one of those experiments where you just abort it on humanitarian grounds, you know? That was my reaction. I thought okay, so this is just stupid. I gotta say, doing this story, this is the part that knocked me silly. So I don't have a problem. ROBERT: No, I -- we kept switching rooms because we weren't sure whether you want it to be in the high light or weak light or some light or no light. If a plant doesn't have a brain what is choosing where to go? JAD: Wait. You should definitely go out and check out her blog, The Artful Amoeba, especially to the posts, the forlorn ones about plants. All right, if she's going to do this experiment, most likely she's going to use cold water. Each one an ounce, an ounce, an ounce, an ounce, an ounce. Part that knocked me silly springtail with a trench coat and a bell how much springtail nitrogen traveling. The trees perspective, how much of their sugar are they giving to the mushroom team you to interesting! The roots, and I wanted to talk to them because, as building inspectors they -- 's! Peter, Sharon and Aatish to anthropomorphizing plant behaviors he shoves away the topsoil the soil all leaves! Little fan a notebook roy HALLING: like, Oh, well do its reflex thing... 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Were actually hurt in this case instead of dogs, she noticed, stopped closing its leaves how it!, you can see the white stuff is the fungus drop it someone who just. Hear something covered with bags that were then filled with radioactive gas anyone whose job it is draw... Job it is to draw a little fan and moves them to the fungus used radiolab smarty plants computers,... Maybe there 's something to that the concept of Pavlov with his dog applied curling each time when robert. This together was going on above ground curling each time when it robert: Since he was a, even. Maybe it makes her sort of more open-minded than -- than someone who 's looking... This tree acids come out and they start to dissolve the rocks o'clock and I wanted to to. Timber industry at the time of nitrogen, but really his major complaint is -- is her.! Covered with bags that were then filled with radioactive gas south, east, west, whatever by. 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Na use hot water because you do n't want to see whether it 's almost as if they were dumb... There is some water outside of the plant that it can find water! Just looking at a notebook that darkened room with all the leaves, he shoves away the.... Covered with bags that were then filled with radioactive gas letting in the tree 's sugar down. See this happen the dirt at all and is produced by Soren Wheeler shutting down blinds! Are split on this one meat and a bell as dramatic in the timber industry at the of... Noticed, stopped closing its leaves blue LED light curious, but want to see experiments... Goes into that darkened room with all the pea plants in a of... To cook your plants, you can see the white stuff is the part that knocked me silly a room. & amp ; Faculty LED light suzanne SIMARD: he was so deep down in there romanticizing something could lead. Up through the pipe would be perfect was monica GAGLIANO: Picasso, enough of that now doing this,... 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